Don’t yell out fire in uncrowded Griffith Park
I can understand why homeowners have been nervous nellies about pointing fingers at the fire department, really I can. Who needs firemen most? Desperate housewives and homeowners. But the LA Fire Department did such a craptacular job in the recent Griffith Park fire that maybe it’s time for someone to point a finger. So I will.
Photo by permission from losermike. He describes it as a compilation of several photographs. It has a foreboding look, and was how I felt about the fire. It did not entertain me.
We saw the fire from the beginning, on the south slope of the Park near the 5. Actually, it was the sunlight that looked oh so wrong , coming through the windows a deep saffron color. Then the smell, and there the terrible flames. And on. And on. The official time it was reported was 1:20 PM on the 8th. That evening homes in Los Feliz were ordered to evacuate. And the official “knockdown” time was 9 AM on the 12th. So this little “scrub fire,” as the media and LAFD kept calling it, was really a 4 day very serious fire. And this was in the middle of a city of over 4 million!
Firemen are very cute, I know, but what the hell were they doing?? Yes, great news that no one was hurt, and no homes were damaged, except for one wooden roof. We got that wonderful report hammered over and over. But you know, a park isn’t about houses, is it. “It was just a brush fire, no structures.” Yup, heard that one, too.
Let’s see, what was missing in those reports: Griffith Park is home to most of the wildlife in Los Angles, including some endangered species, and many endangered birds; songbirds in Southern California have been dwindling for the last 4 years, and this was an important sanctuary. So, what happened to them? How many burned to death in a most gruesome way? And what about the rare live oaks and 100 year old trees that Colonel Griffith planted for us, and how about the two gardens, tended by volunteers for decades, now totally burned? Is “just brush” the new fire department palliative for “There’s nothing here to see, so just move on?”
Ok, I know nothing about fire, or putting it out. And firepeople are probably some of the hardest workers anywhere. But a fire department that lets a fire get this out of hand, sucks.
I have been so distraught, wondering what happened to the animals. The media didn’t even mention it. Griffith Park has no environmentalists, biologists, naturalists, or forestry or park managers, either on staff or as advisers, for one of the biggest city parks in the country!! It’s hard to get answers when there’s no one there. There is only one person in Los Angeles Animal Services who has any experience with wildlife: Greg Randall. He didn’t know which or how many animals died, but when I spoke to him, he expected hundreds had.
I went to the Griffith Park neighborhood council meeting on May 8 to try to get some answers. Fire Captain Fry spoke first, and said that he was the one who got the call, and within 3 minutes he had rounded up 20 trucks, 9 helicopters and 500 firemen and women. They had 900 water drops. He said one spot turned into 10 spots quickly. He said winds were about 15 mph. (When I called to get the official Fire Department report, it says winds were 10 mph, as did the weather report that day. We’re not talking tornado, people.) It began in Aberdeen Canyon, on the south side, but the Captain said his main concern was the LA Zoo, several miles to the north, and a troop of boy scouts who were hiking in a different direction. He was also concerned about any stray hikers, and the Rangers were very helpful in finding stray hikers. He emphasized that no structures were burned, and no one was hurt. He did not mention how many animals or trees had died, but said over 800 acres, 25% of the whole park, were burned.
He also spoke about future plans to have everyone in the city hooked up to Google Earth, so that we can see any problems with either fires or earthquakes, and notify anyone in the danger zones by email.
Councilman Tom LaBonge spoke, too. He encouraged everyone to think ahead. In 5, 10, or maybe 15 years down the line, who knows, the park would look as good as ever, with new chaparral and brush. (He obviously loves the Park, in spite of, or perhaps because of, his interest in adding fast food restaurants, tram rides, hotels, and other fun stuff to the wilderness.) Someone asked him about wildlife, and his face darkened. About 25 deer. A couple of coyotes… (No, I don’t know what he meant to say, either. Died, survived, he spotted? But he has such a friendly, warm voice, which makes him an excellent speaker.)
Two other Park and Recreation employees also spoke about the fire, and said that extra water had been brought into the park for the animals, but that basically they had been left alone to try and recover. (Afterwards, Greg Randall said that nothing had been brought into the animals at all, and none were being treated.) Vicky Israel, Griffith Park Manager, said that about 160 more trees would have to be felled, as they were in danger of falling at some point, even though they were still alive. (The Park Forestry Division has cut down a total of 1200 more living trees at this writing. For no good reason. Laura Bauernfeind, Forestry Head, told me that it was to “mitigate the city’s liability towards the public.”) Laura, is it okay that we hold you responsible for global warming, then?
The Chief Ranger of Griffith Park, Al Torres, spoke briefly about the hard work the Rangers had done, and were still doing, to keep everything safe, and to reopen the park as soon as possible to the public. Then LaBonge introduced Senior Lead Officer Gina Chovan by asking her, “So what were the police doing when the city burned?” Chovan replied, “Taking lots of photos, same as you guys!” (Cop humor. No one promised it would be funny, however.) LaBonge cheerfully interjected, “Well, I think Barnsdall Park is planning a gallery exhibit in the fall or even sooner for those great photos!”
He just wants us to be happy, for we are his people.
I cornered Torres soon after he spoke to get the real skinny on the animals. He said it was devastating, with many many dead animals. I kept asking him to give an approximate estimate, and he finally said, “Hundreds, and lots of injuries, like coyotes with burned paws trying to walk and forage.” Kristin Sabo, caretaker for Amir’s Garden, the only one that did not burn down, was up there with Torres the day after the fire and said she estimated that hundreds of animals died, and were everywhere. She also said thousands of birds had died. “They were what I call walking dead -they were in shock, affected by the smoke, and could not fly. They were doomed.”
I talked with LaBonge a week later, and he said that in his frequent hikes in the park, he saw two dead rabbits, who apparently were just over-come by smoke, not fire, not burned, and that was it! (he just wants us to be happy.) When I asked him to estimate how many total animals he thought had died, he said it was very sad, a tragedy.
It’s apparent that the fire in Griffith Park didn’t have to go on for days. And “just brush”, wasn’t. Once again, Griffith Park is the scruffy stepchild of Los Angeles, with no money and therefore worthless. It’s the second biggest city park in the country, but unlike major city parks such as Central Park, or Fairmount Park, the city ignores it. Bernadette Soter, Chairperson of the Parks, River and Open Space Committee, calls the Park budget “a mystery shrouded in an enigma,” as the city will not reveal any balance sheet or accounting of the park.
I asked one of the Neighborhood Council Board members if he thought the fire department did a good job. “Well, I live 2 doors away from the park, and they saved my house, which is great.” True, dat. “But I really have no way to determine if they did a good job…” Hah! As my 10th grade geometry teacher used to say, silence means assent. Maybe, just maybe, the LAFD could get a little training in how to manage fires in our own urban forest? That sounds like a good idea. And if you do go to the park, please remember that the Zoo, or in the middle of a Boy Scout hike are probably the safest places to be, because that’s where the firemen go first.
Donna Barstow
Griffith Park is the 2nd biggest park in the US, and I'm just the person to investigate it! I've lived here for over 25 years. I was part of the PROS Committee in Griffith Park Neighborhood Council and am on the Housing & Tenants Rights Committee in the Silver Lake NC. I'm in the LA Press Club, and you can find some of my articles in the LA Weekly and the Los Feliz Ledger. I'm a cartoonist for Parade Magazine, The New Yorker, LA Times, Slate, & most major media. Questions and contacts welcome.
33 Comments
Brian Humphrey
Ms. Barstow,
As a faithful public servant who has enjoyed your blog and our Griffith Park, I was genuinely pleased to see your comments regarding Greg Randall of the Department of Animal Services. He performs a vital function and is certainly worthy of public praise.
I must admit however at being saddened to read:
“the LA Fire Department did such a craptacular job in the recent Griffith Park fire that maybe it’s time for someone to point a finger”
“this little ‘scrub fire,’ as the media and LAFD kept calling it”
“Firemen are very cute, I know, but what the hell were they doing??”
“Is ‘just brush’ the new fire department palliative for ‘There’s nothing here to see, so just move on?'”
“a fire department that lets a fire get this out of hand…sucks”
“It’s apparent that the fire in Griffith Park didn’t have to go on for days”
“Maybe, just maybe, the LAFD could get a little training in how to manage fires in our own urban forest?”
While your assertions are worthy of our collective consideration and continued public discussion, I personally found them misguided and hurtful.
Though few of us are fortunate to live as close to Griffith Park as you, I can tell you that to a member, the men and women of your LAFD take great pride – and offer considerable year-round effort, to protecting the Crown Jewel of our municipal parks. Such was the case on May 8th and has been in the days that have followed.
Sometimes however, despite our training, teamwork and tenacity, wildfire gains the upper hand. It is a sad but undeniable fact that extends vastly beyond our Santa Monica Mountain corridor.
In closing, I am glad to hear that you have been in contact with Chief Fry and Councilmember LaBonge. I hope that you will continue to be a driving force in the restoration of our beloved Griffith Park, and that you will come to understand the genuine commitment of your local Firefighters to preserving life, property and the environment.
Respectfully Yours in Safety and Service,
Brian Humphrey
Firefighter/Specialist
Public Service Officer
Los Angeles Fire Department
David Markland
“Ok, I know nothing about fire, or putting it out. And firepeople are probably some of the hardest workers anywhere. But a fire department that lets a fire get this out of hand…sucks.”
If you’re going to say that the LAFD and other services sucked in their response, explain where they fell short, and what they could have done better.
I also don’t know anyone who dismissed the magnitude of this fire at any point, let alone the fire departments.
That said, its great to see if you’ve devoted a great deal of time to express your passion for the park and its recovery… just wish my introduction to it was sooner and not through this sort of post.
Tim
Nice opinions, poor facts. What you wrote may have been heartfelt and even in some way with good intentions but most of your assertions were, frankly, wrong. I had a chance to talk to a few of the firefighters who responded to that incident several days after the fact and maybe you should, too, to get an idea of just how helpless things can be in spite of training and phenomenal effort put forth by every one of them. A 10 or 15 mile per hour wind may not seem like much but I learned that with super dry and hot weather with incredibly low fuel moisture, those fires burn hotter and faster than can be controlled.
From what I have seen these men and women did everything possbible and that is all we can expect. It is sad about all the animals, plants, etc. that were destroyed but even if man-started, fires are part of nature’s course to keep things in check. The incredible protection of human life and property should be recognized.
John Livingston
Concern for animals is great,and perhaps the city should devote more thought and effort to the wildlife of Griffith Park — or work with state and federal wildlife management expert.
However, that is not — and should not be — the job of the Fire Department.
While the posting did not directly blame the Fire Department for the deaths of hundreds of animals, it seemed to paint the city — as having a lack of concern about them.
Moving forward, the zeal and energy that went into this posting could be effectively used to push the Los Angeles City Parks Department to come up with an effective plan of restoring and managing wildlife in Griffith Park.
Ashley Rogers
I know that you are frustrated at the devastation that this brush fire caused to Griffith Park. However, you should not be upset with the firefighters of the Los Angeles Fire Department. These dedicated fire service personnel worked very hard at suppressing the flames at Griffith Park. I would encourage you to study more about fire behavior before you point any fingers at these firefighters who serve your community proudly.
I was able to go hiking at Griffith Park during the summer of 2006. It is a beautiful park, and I have faith in the government leaders of Los Angeles that they will work hard to restore the park. And, if they don’t, shame on them.
Please focus your energy by working closely with the Parks Department in spreading the word on how your fellow citizens can help to get the Park back to normal as possible and quickly as possible.
Ashley Rogers
Arkansas
Jerry Cohen
I think you should really do some research in the ecology of Southern California before you makes statements that are false, although you are entitled to your opinion. The brush and chaparral, etc. that covers Griffith Park and the Los Angeles region depends on fire as a natural form of regeneration. Many native plants in California actually benefit from fire in order to pollinate, especially pine cones. In fact, the animals also benefit from fire due to natural selection. Over the course of many years, fire helps to ensure a natural balance of predator and prey in many ecosystems in California, even Griffith Park. You’re tax dollars could not afford to protect you and every animal in Los Angeles from fire anyways. There are always going to be devastating fires in Southern California because of these facts I have mentioned. It is the fire department’s job to protect human lives, pets, and property to the best of their abilities. The wild animals are better off in the long run protecting themselves, and I’m not being sarcastic.
Jerry
Firefighter, Austin, TX
Ecology Minor from the University of Texas at Austin
Born and raised in Glendale, CA
Dan Steinberg
Your assertion that the fire department and city did a poor job of protecting Griffith Park is one of pure ignorance. I agree with the comments above. If you understood fire behavior, you’d know that when conditions are extreme enough and a brush fire starts, there’s no way to put it out until the extreme weather subsides. As Jerry pointed out, that’s the way mother nature designed Southern California vegetation, and she did a pretty good job.
I am a member of the press and I was up on the fire roads within 30 minutes of the first alarm and watched the men and women of the LAFD and Park Rangers aggressively battle the blaze. They did a hell of a job and they absolutely did everything they could to try to halt the blaze, more so than any other local fire department would have done. Unfortunately, weather conditions were not in their favor that day. Conditions were extreme, gusty winds, high temps, and low relative humidity, and super dry brush. I watched the firefighters time and time again try to hit spot fires that jumped fire roads with hoses and helicopter drops, but to no avail. Then for the most bizarre part of the fire, the fire intensified at night! My guess is that hasn’t happened in recorded history that time of year is Los Angeles. Night time is usually when the fire dies out, especially in the middle of Spring.
My opinion is that if the LAFD or the city has done anything wrong here, it’s protecting the area from fires too well over the years and allowing the brush to get as dense as it was, but that just lends to the fact that the LAFD has done such a great job of fighting fires in the park in years past.
The truth about the LAFD is they are one of the most well trained, aggressive, and professional fire departments in the world. Through fire prevention, they’ve turned a city that was once plagued by fires into a city that rarely sees fires anymore. In the last 14 years that I’ve owned a scanner and listened to the LAFD radio traffic, fires have become more and more rare. This is due mostly to the efforts of the city and the LAFD specifically through all sorts of fire prevention methods. The truth is, we’re really blessed to live in a city like Los Angeles that has such great fire protection.
Jason Randall
I read through your article above with some interest. It’s always valuable to gain insight into any situation that involves our local community. The Griffith Park fire was a serious threat to our community, but your article caused me some sadness, as apparently the important messages regarding the difference between urban and wildland areas haven’t reached you (and perhaps many others).
I noted that you are an author. Congratulations on your success there and hopefully, it will continue to grow and prosper over time. However, there is a big difference between being an author and a journalist (and while you didn’t make that claim, your article was written with “journalistic flair.” Journalists are taught to seek out the “truth” of a situation, but that also requires setting personal emotions aside, or their work will ultimately be limited to a reflection of their opinion and singular perspective. This is where your article above failed, and it’s done you and the fine men and women of the various emergency agencies a tremendous disservice.
I too was at the GP drive through with councilperson LaBonge. And your comments about that tour (and other aspects as well) reflect the shallow attention given to the messages being delivered. Each one of your comments for the most part are only slightly off the mark – but when you add it up, it’s a story that doesn’t reflect reality or what in fact took place.
Chief Fry is not a captain. He’s one of the brightest Battalion Chiefs in the city and per council person LaBonge is due for promotion to Assistant Chief. It’s a simple error, and alone would be no big thing. Councilperson LaBonge grew up in Silverlake and GP was his sanctuary. There is no doubt he’s a crafty politician, but GP is near and dear to his heart. Review the various blog stories, newspaper clippings, and TV reports and you’ll Tom LaBonge everywhere during that fire emergency. Sure, he was at the press conferences. That’s a basic requirement for an elected official. But he couldn’t have slept much that week. He was all over the park, seeing what could be done to help. Since that disruptive week, he has been working diligently to raise monies for rebuilding the park. And during that tour, both he and Chief Fry were trying desperately to tell the local community some important things about fire.
Unlike a fire in a building, a brush fire cannot be stopped simply by showing up and pointing hoses at the flames. There is only one effective way to kill a brush fire. Surround it and defend a line – just like a military campaign. Within that line, drown hotspots with helicopters. If the LAFD didn’t have an Air Operations group and six helicopters, the fire would have been much worse. And, most of all, let the fire run out of fuel.
Chief Fry and councilperson LaBonge also showed us some maps. Did you see them? Do you know how they got them? As several news agencies reported, the LAFD has a remarkable system that allows one of its helicopters to point a camera at the perimeter of a fire and to then translate that data accurately within 2 meters onto a map. This GIS data gives the men and women in charge of fighting a fire like this an accurate picture of a quickly growing fire. A firefighter pilot named Steve Robinson put the program together and there’s no doubt it helped reduce the threat.
The thing I remember most about the presentation that evening was the message that was repeated over and over: a brush fire will occur if there is wild land. It isn’t a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. Both of them, not to mention the park ranger and others who spoke, told us about the dangers of brush fires and the things we could do to protect ourselves as homeowners.
As for the zoo, you’re right there. It wasn’t likely in serious danger. But, at the onset of a major fire, firefighters are all about protecting lives. And that includes the lives of people and animals. The animals in the zoo had no place to run, if the fire had approached. Andy hiking in the park would have trouble escaping – except for animals. While any loss of life is terrible, animals in the wild are not helpless. They are part of an ecosystem and fire is an equal part. Firefighters can’t know where all of the wild animals are and to think they were inconsiderate or careless is not consistent with the facts.
I’m sure there were things the LAFD could have done better. But one thing I’ve learned from being in Los Angeles – the LAFD doesn’t let problems occur twice. They’ll learn from the GP fire. The big question is: Will we, as the public that lives here, learn from the fire? Will we be better prepared to evacuate when asked? Will we know how to protect our pets and loved ones? Those are the questions I’m concerned about. And for anyone to write a story that so clearly emotes raw emotion and omits the balance of what multiple sources, reflection, and appropriate note taking provides… well, I think that sucks.
Lisbeth
I am stunned that anyone could malign men and women who put their lives on the line everyday to protect and serve all of the people of this great city. Living 2 blocks from the evacuated area and seeing first hand the incredibly fast spreading fire from my balcony, I was certainly in fear and packed a bag in the event the call to evacuate was furthered. All night, I lay awake to the sounds of helicopters, both fire fighting and media directly over my roof. Whatever the reported wind speed was, it was strong enough to shred my porch shades in less than an hour. My thoughts were of both the people who have homes in the fire area, the animals that live there, AND of the fire fighters risking their lives to stop the rage caused by one person. Have you given any thought to that? If you wish to put blame anywhere, it should be on the one person who caused such a tragedy.
I too love the animals and the beauty of a wonderful park in the city in which I was born. But everyday as I walk to the bus stop, I see trails of cigarette butts heedlessly tossed on sidewalks, streets, and lawns—and I have even some who toss them in trash cans. Do you really want a cause to fight? Try a safety campaign at the source, changing human behavior that starts fires. I am not anti-smoking, I am anti-fire, and it is human behavior that started the park fire. It took the multitude of very brave fire fighters and taxpayer dollars to stop it. Get real!
Josh Roten, Fire Captain
The author obviously has a particular point of view about the recent Major Emergency brush fire at Griffith Park, with her focus being on the park’s wildlife and vegetation. What ever gave the author the idea that the LAFD or other responding agencies doesn’t consider and strive to protect these things? It is (simply put) a matter of priorities and Risk vs. Gain. Human life comes first, and the lives/safety of the responding firefighters are of utmost concern to fireground commanders of all ranks – safety of personnel is #1 so to speak. The safety of the public and their property are what firefighters are here to protect, followed by the concerns expressed by the author. So, it is not a matter of the LAFD not being concerned with wildlife and vegetation, it is simply a matter of priorities and in the initial phases of a large-scale incident with serious potential, those items are not normally at the top of the list as some folks would like. Does the author get upset at all fire departments anytime brush and wildlife are lost anywhere in L.A., or other regions? Does the author realize these issues are not unique to Griffith Park? Does the author consider and appreciate that for decades California fire agencies have spent countless hours and resources preparing for these events because we must? And, for that pre-incident planning and preparation we are regarded as some of the world’s experts in wildland firefighting and fire management? If you have not been “first in”, or in close proximity, to an aggressive brush fire in the Southern California region you have no place to comment on what conditions are, or are not, like! I bet the author would have gladly jumped into the nearest fire department rig if she had been close to the uncontrolled fire! Perspective can be an amazing force. I grew up one mile from Griffith Park, and love the park as others do, but I am also a professional firefighter with 29 years of service in California and I understand the many issues, concerns, and factors that affect the responding agencies, particularly those fire resources which are first on the scene and the immediate decisions that must be made with very limited facts available at the moment those decisions must be made. How many of us have said after the fact “that would have been nice to know when we arrived?” I have. In many cases the ‘new’ information would have changed some of my decisions. I am not a member of the LAFD, but have many friends that are and I have a huge respect for that department. They take protecting thier community to a higher level than many fire departments can or will ! The author’s concerns about wildlife and vegetation are respectable, but they have a place on the priority list during a major emergency brush fire, and the fact that those issues are not at the top of the list are simply an illustration of the gap in the author’s knowledge of the business of Public Safety. The facts that include no lives lost, no serious injuries (especially to the brave men and women who take the fire ‘head-on’ from the ground and the air), and no homes lost are the most important facts in the afternath of the Griffith Park fire.
Jared Jamison
Los Angeles City Fire Department is one of the best fire departments in the world. You have no idea how great these Los Angeles City Firefighters are. They are well respected by Firefighters from around the world. There training is intense. There fire ground actions are safe, yet aggressive. You have some of the best Firefighters in the WORLD responding to your doorstep within minutes. This fire could have happened anywhere in the nation with far greater devastation. Take a minute and read these comments. You need a reality check.
LAFD is an ISO Class 1 ranked Fire Department. Look that up and, do some homework on what that entails.
Buzz
A high ranking chief officer shook his head and said the LAFD was “lucky” on this one. I don’t know about you, but that doesn’t inspire confidence in me.
Ben
Jerry states:
“Many native plants in California actually benefit from fire in order to pollinate, especially pine cones.”
Unfortunately, these trees are now being killed by the park services department as the blog post states. Nowhere does she disagree with any statement you made.
I’d have to agree with this blog post. Everyone says “LAFD great, LAFD perfect”. Prove it. Teah, i’d say they were just lucky, as the high ranking officer stated.
Scott
This blog has brought up many good points and considerations. As many have mentioned California has a unique topography and climate. Its a perfect catalyst for fire. Its natural beauty is being infringed upon by urban sprawl. Thus cause more problems for fire suppression. Being a firefighter of 10 years. I have fought many wildland fires and structure fires. I have seen many houses burn in a wildland fire. I would like to invite the author to partake in a class on basic wildland firefighting to get a background on what is involved with a “brush” fire. There is basically a fire “triangle” The 3 sides being the elements for a major emergency brush fire such as Griffith Park or what happened in Lake Tahoe.
The 3 elements are Fuel, Weather and Topography. When all 3 elements align you have the recipe for a catastrophe. Fuels are the brush, grass, trees etc. They are classified by hours 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 hour fuels. They are depending on their composition and susceptibility to burn. Basically dry grass is going to burn faster that an oak tree. There is also measurements of fuel moisture and other variables. Since we are in a drought our fuel moisture is dryer than Kiln Dried lumber. Weather is basic. The main components of weather are temperature, relative humidity and wind. When those three elements align you have extreme fire weather or a “red flag” day. Topography is the lay of the land. Hills, slopes, canyons all contribute to fire behavior. Griffith park is unique in that most of it is raw nature, thus posing accessablity problem for firefighters and fire engines. Helicopters are the main fire attack method.
Now some more truths. Did LAFD get “lucky” yes they did. They are ill-equipped or trained to handle a brush fire of that magnitude. They need to learn brush fire tactics and strategies from LA County Fire or the California Department of Forestry (CalFire). They have the wrong type of fire engines, wrong type of hose and wrong tactics. Griffith Park fire was a topography fire that should have been fought with hand crews, dozers, and helicopters. Fire engines are just a supplement, if you have the correct type of engine. LAFD has engines for structure firefighting, not brush firefighting. The California Office of Emergency Services (OES) classifies fire engines on their capability. The classification is based on fire pump size, water tank size and amount of hose carried. Type 1 engines are for the pavement and equipped for structure firefighting only. Type 2 engines are for structure and some wildland capability. Type 3 are dedicated wildland fire engines. Type 4 are pickup trucks retrofitted for light brush use. OES wont use Type 4s for a major emergency. All engines on the GP fire were Type 1s, LAFD does not have type 2 or type 3 apparatus.
Rob
I guess they’ll give anyone a blog to gripe about anything they want no matter how misguided, uneducated, and non-factual they are.
LA MapNerd
The defense of Griffith Park and its surrounding communities during this fire was simply amazing.
That no structures were destroyed and no one was killed was little short of a major miracle.
The all-night helicopter assault, with pilots flying 14 hour shifts in smoke and darkness in difficult terrain was one of the most amazing and flat-out heroic aerial battles ever seen outside a war zone.
The LAFD Bell 412 (“Huey”) pilots, in particular – working without benefit of the night-vision equipment and high-tech targeting systems on the newer County Firehawks – deserve the very highest praise for their bravery and heroism.
They deserve medals, each and every one of them.
I’m glad you confessed your ignorance up front, since it saves me having to point it out.
Wildfires are simply NOT controllable. They’re too big, and there’s too much energy involved. The brush is evolved to burn, and there is NO technology, NO human agency, that can stop that from happening.
A brave, dedicated, well-equipped force can defend structures and lives and try to minimize damage – and that’s exactly what happened here.
But you really can’t expect more than that; and if you did expect more than that, then it’s good that your ignorant illusions have been shattered.
The LAFD did an astonishing job. Without their heroic efforts, this fire would have been much, much worse – hundreds of houses burned, entire neighborhoods devastated, lives lost, and far larger areas of the park burned.
That a wildfire of that scale in the middle of one of the world’s largest cities didn’t kill anyone, didn’t burn down any houses, is really little short of miraculous.
But it wasn’t luck.
It was hard work, and real, live heroics. People putting their lives on the line to do a truly spectacular job – one of the greatest feats ever in the history of urban firefighting.
As someone who does know rather a bit about wildland firefighting and helicopter assault (though only as an admiring bystander, not a professional firefighter) it’s hard to express just how completely wrong you are.
I also have to say I’m impressed with how polite the real professionals have been so far here in the comments. That’s admirable, given how gravely you, in your ignorance, have insulted them.
You really should apologize.
Bill
The comment was made that the LAFD is ill prepared for Brush/Wildland fires because of a lack of hand crews and offroad capable apparatus, ( the LAFD has two Hummer/Brush fire apparatus, as well as four wheel drive brush patrols). The inital assignment for the GP fire included LACoFD resources, (hand crews and Dozer teams) to assist the LAFD. It was also the Fire Departments from Burbank, Glendale, Pasadena, Beverly Hills and further away that battled for those four days. CalFire (CDF) does not have a presence in LA County (the State pays the County to provide services), but did supply airborne resources when asked.
As for training, the LAFD trains constantly for the inevitable fire in the brush areas of the city. The luck was that the the Santa Anas has not started blowing yet!
Suz
Donna, thank you for your blog and vital information regarding the Griffith Park Fire which the news media was most remiss in their reporting: that non-human life forms were killed/terribly suffered.
From news personnel and specifically to those who have replied to your blog that no one was killed are of course exercising typical “human” arrogance and denial. A strong majority of humans on this planet really need to “get” over their self-importance in the scheme of this vast universe.
Bottom line! If we continue to skip and whistle merrily along our failing path, fail to participate as a “whole” in a pro-active, guardianship stance of compassion, protection and preservation of “all” the life/environment on this rare jewel of a home…ultimately, a final solution sentence will transpire. And guess what, folks, there will be no “Bruce Willis” Die Hard character to bails us out!
Oh…let us not forget the cause of the Griffth Park fire which inflicted such a horrific death toll and suffering to the wildlife and trees — do I dare mention it was another “HUMAN”…again????!!!! How pathetically tragic that some humans have to keep on justifing their ignorance and their excuses….
Angela
Donna – you should be proud of all the debate you’ve sparked… pun intended!
I haven’t heard a thing about the animals, I don’t suppose they vote.
I agree that it’s a shame that we haven’t come up with a solution for fighting forest fires!
Jason Randall
If Donna would like to be proud, perhaps she could do something beyond “pointing a finger” – a typical act of a bystander who just wants things done for them. There are a wide variety of programs related to conservation, animal protection, and community involvement. If there isn’t an appropriate organization for animal safety, start one. There’s no doubt the Recreation and Parks Department would welcome a well thought out and focused program aimed at saving animals in danger.
Just remember that while wildlife is lovely to gaze upon and obviously doesn’t have the resources humans do, they are capable of looking after themselves. The dangers of wildfires for animals in the wild are nothing compared to the dangers these same animals face from humans on a continual basis. This is a worldwide issue and if Donna and others who believe in her concern for animals are interested in the safety of wildlife, get involved. Do something.
And that doesn’t include making comments that are off the mark and are hurtful to people who risk their lives on a daily basis. Remember, while you are entitled to your opinion, no matter what it is, sharing one that is obviously based on emotions rather than reason will dilute your message and the value you put into it. Firefighters are not responsible for the loss of life of animals in GP. Nor is Tom LaBonge or any other emergency service. The objective of the fire service is to protect human lives and property. Just reading what I just wrote is sad – you should know this. Pick up the phone and call Animal Services (designed to protect animals in the wild, among other things), and do something to support your mission.
Scott
Allow me to retort. Lets talk the scale of wildland fires and their impact on the United States. Last year there were 57.609 wildland fires for a total or 3,779,450 acres burned. As much as that may seem tragic. Its a part of mother nature, it allows the ecosystem to regenerate. Humans civilizations expansion into the wild has curbed mother nature of doing her job. Lets look at Australia. They burn thousands upon hundered-thousands of acres of the bush on a set schedule to let mother nature do her job.
As for the post that disagree with my opinion on LAFD’s tactics and response. Please see the PDF below reiterating my previous post about OES engine type classification. The brush patrols and Hummers dont even qualify as a type 4 apparatus. The engines that were called from Downtown, Hollywood, S. Central did they even meet OES type 1 status? Were they equipped and trained to make an offensive attack using progressive hose lays, can the LAFD firefighters support dozers/crew lines for firing operations. Were fixed wing aircraft used on initial attack to “paint” the area ahead of the fire with fire retardant? It wasn’t until the following morning that CDF S-2 air attack crews were called in. Also so the taxpayers know, it was dragged out for 4 days so the State would flip for the bill. Its politics, look at the Tahoe fire, it was dragged out so the Feds would pick up the State bill.
OES classification on page 5
http://www.oes.ca.gov/Operational/OEShome.nsf/PDF/FirePDFs/$file/STLManual2002.pdf
Current wildland fires and stats
http://www.nifc.gov/fire_info/nfn.htm
Donna
Thanks for the comments, everyone!
There are some important things to consider here…
Tim
Wow, interesting that some people would rather the LAFD direct their focus elsewhere. I love that logic, “let the boy scouts, zoo patrons, and zoo animals fend for themselves, we’ve got some trees and birds to save.”
John Livingston
Who is better trained to fight fires, a firefighter or a wildlife biologist?
And who is better trained to manage wildlife?
Tim
I hope Benedict Canyon was up to your standards
Clare
ok… let see. I LIVE IN GRITHIF PARK..oh ya..no houses.. thats bull 3 of four were burnt…and oh..let just see um 2 houses collapes of smoke dammage… so….mister Brian Humphrey ur bull…. as a blah blah blah… its the firemans fault i got sick from all the somke.. and my heaven gone… dead… the people that live here have a real connection and now its lost.. also… yesterday..the 14th another fire and itd WHOS FAULT IT BURNT SO MUCH? THE FIREDEPARTMENT
Dan
Note to Clare, lay off the crack pipe before you post comments on a blog.
Jared Jamison
Clare you live in Griffith Park and cannot spell it? Some houses are written off as a loss to save others that are more easily defended. That’s just the way it is. Can’t save them all. I guess if someone gets shot anywhere in LA it’s the police department’s fault as well? That makes no sense and has no logic. It’s the fireman’s fault you got all sick from the smoke? You seem like a big enough person to by a house right? Well next time when you see a fire maybe you should stay inside, close the windows, or better yet evacuate the area. Another poor sole looking for someone to blame. If you have so much free time practice your spelling. It would be much more productive.
Clare
note to Jared Jamison nice spelling of sole… hipocrite….. you might need it too
Janet Venable
As to your article, I find it very offensive.
I was born and raised here in Los Angeles living a great portion of my life on the hill with a fence separating my family’s property from Griffith Park. I have memories of riding horses bareback through the park, the zoo, picnics in the little green forest nestled away in a spot above Amesbury. My dad golfed in the park. My brothers, sister and I hiked in the park, played baseball at the diamond up at the end of Commonwealth and my son enjoyed the park as well.
The Los Angeles Fire Department has been involved in fighting some wicked fires in the park when the winds change at a moments notice and what appears to be a small fire suddenly flares big and horrific becoming threateningly close to your home and all you love after jumping from peak to peak without warning and then swiftly with a gust of wind turns the other direction and attends to it’s distruction elsewhere with no apparent reason.
The LAFD’s attention, dedication, training, stamina, courage and willingness to serve is something I have had the privilege of witnessing for many years, as a witness to fires in Griffith Park from my porch as a youngster, as a teen and as adult then and now a senior just a little ways away.
The care, the dedication of the LAPD as well is their courage in going into the fire area to assist, not just with getting people out of their homes who needed to be evacuated some able bodied, some not; some willing; some not –but further dealings with the endless and unbearable traffic on Los Feliz and the ever-present looky-loos, people who didn’t want to move on, but want to stay even if it means blocking emergency vehicles from getting to their much needed destination.
Well, I forgive you dearie, no matter, you were probably a just a little scared; so, you got rude and attacked my heros; the ones who are there to protect you & me. You know the ones who fish you out of the rivers, the burning cars, the burning buildings and protect you from the bad guys. The ones who give you cpr and give you life again; or maybe they put a collar on you as you lay in the street filled with your blood and tell you “it’s going to be ok, you’re just on the way to the hospital, you’ve been in a serious accident”. That’s what my heroes have done for me, my friends and my family and that’s what they continue to do and that’s why I love and appreciate them so very much.
As for SLO Gina “Courageous” Chovan, what a fabulous female officer. Always there for you, always welcoming, always of service and always doing her best with situations some of us would never have enough courage to keep our eyes opened about much less deal with and resolve.
Finally, about the birds. I live east of Griffith Park now and since the fire, there are lots and lots of birds over here. All different kinds, some I’ve never seen before. I’m going to have to get out my binoculars.
In appreciation of our finest, LAFD & LAPD!
Donna
Janet, thanks.
I replied to your comment here: https://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2007/10/09/response-to-a-comment/
Jared Jamison
Clare,
Sometimes I type too quick, especially when responding to such idiotic comments.
Steve
WOW!!! Idiots abound… I don’t comment on rocket science, because I don’t know a thing about it, maybe some of you should take that bit of advice. If you know nothing about firefighting, maybe you should read up a little first.
We in the fire service do hide behind the fact that most of you don’t have a clue to what we are supposed to do or how. It seems the fires we are not as effiecent or that don’t go perfect we are the best. The wind driven (doesn’t take much wind) fires that we have a hard time controling, and work the hardest at, we get this BS. Usually the ones that build their house in a chimney or draw or saddle (you hillside home owners may want to look up those terms) with wood siding and explosive plants up to the wood deck on a narrow road that they fought to keep the right to park the BMW on with a lack of water supply that they didn’t want to pay an extra 30 dollars a year for a fully staffed FD (that part was for the clowns in San Diego County that don’t have a full time staffed FD, the firestation without a crew down the street won’t put out the fire, they have to be staffed to work!!). Whew!! I feel better now.
Some tips for urban/interface home owners:
1. Clear your brush!!!!!!!!
2. Cover your attic vents or make removable covers to place in advance of a fire (several homes we lose are do to the sparks getting into the attic and burning the house from the inside)
3. Access Access Access- We need a road in and most important a road out (provide turn around space if you can)
4. If you have a pool, provide a way for us to get that water for our use. (draft hydrant in your front yard, buy a small fire pump 100 gpm would help..250 gpm would be awsome, access space to get our hose to the pool)
5. I love wood decks too, but in the hills you are asking for your place to burn down. If you must keep the deck..keep it maintained. In advance of the fire. Remove the furniture.
6. If you have the funds, build a water tank above your home.
7. Look into Barricade, it works if used the right way.
8. Invite your local fire station to visit your home, ask their advice in making your home more defendable.
9. Ask the firefighters about creating a “safety zone” for them. If your home has a safe location to park the engine. An area that the firefighters can run to for safety in the event the fire over runs them. Which home do you think would be the most likely saved??
10. Put your most important documents in a small portable fire safe.
11. Have a “go bag” for evacuation.
12. Have a neighborhood Pre-fire season BBQ and invite your local FD station to come and talk to the home owners about preparing for the coming fire season. In SoCal the worst part of fire season is Sept. Oct. and Nov., but remember a brush fire can start at anytime of the year.
These are just some of the steps you can take to prepare.
HELP US HELP YOU!!!