Mountain bikers at your picnic? You decide.
Equestrian Lynn Brown has notified Griffith Park users, equestrians, and city officials that there is a Bicycle Plan afoot that would allow mountain bikes on the Park Trails! This is insane. No one wants to be pushed aside by a piece of noisy, smelly machinery. We already have cars for that. (Or, if they don’t have machinery, they might whoop and holler.) In any case, they squish things that should be left alive and moving.
There is a proposal from the city (why is it that the city listens to bad ideas?) to allow mountain bikers to use non-paved trails in Griffith Park, and all City Parks. This includes the 50 miles of equestrian trails in GP. Presently, this is against the law, but mountain bikers have lobbied pretty successfully to get the Ordinance changed to allow this travesty. Mountain bikes on unpaved trails will do irreparable damage to wildlife habitat.
After years of behind the scenes manipulations, the Bicycle Plan is now open for public review and comment. The mountain bike lobby is making a push for City Park trails by overturning the current City Ordinance forbidding bikes on trails. In this bike plan, bikers are asking for access to trails in Griffith Park, Elysian Park, Serrania Park, O’Melveny Park, Santa Ynez Canyon and Lime Kiln Canyon Park, among others. If the Ordinance is overturned, all Parks will be opened to mountain bikers.
To view the Bike Plan.
For Mountain bike sections go here. Chapter 3, and Appendix H.
For those who were unable to attend the meetings, you can make comments by sending an email to: Mr. Jordann Turner at Jordann.Turner@lacity.org.
Or mail a letter or postcard to:
City of Los Angeles, Dept. of City Planning,
Jordann Turner, Bicycle Plan Project Manager
200 N. Spring Street, Room 721
Los Angeles, CA 90012
Some suggested comments:
The Bicycle Master Plan is a transportation plan. Mountain bikes are a recreational, extreme sport. The mountain bike element should be moved to the Appendix of the Plan. It is NOT City Policy. It has no business being in a Bicycle Master Plan. The mountain bike recreational concerns should be relegated to Rec. and Parks, not brought in under the guise of the Department of Transportation (DOT). This issue (mountain biking) has diverted resources and energies away
from the primary goal to make bicycling a real transportation option.
Mountain biking was found not feasible after the 1996 Bike Master Plan.
This issue was already settled. Nothing is new.
Allowing mountain biking on any trail in any location in the City parks will require changing the City Park Ordinance. If the Ordinance is changed, the door is then open to all trails all the time. It is urgent to support the continued implementation of the Park Ordinance.
The City already spent $5 million on a mountain bike park. Significant
public resources were spent on the strength of CORBA’s word and
commitment to this park. They quit after one try. This should be
investigated.
The City agreed to do environmental studies at this mountain bike park.
It never did.
No one likes a bully, LA City Bicycle Plan. I would feel really uncomfortable colliding with one of these on a windy path, wouldn’t you? Don’t allow this.
Photo thanks to Brian Auer, under Creative Commons on Flickr.
Donna Barstow
Griffith Park is the 2nd biggest park in the US, and I'm just the person to investigate it! I've lived here for over 25 years. I was part of the PROS Committee in Griffith Park Neighborhood Council and am on the Housing & Tenants Rights Committee in the Silver Lake NC. I'm in the LA Press Club, and you can find some of my articles in the LA Weekly and the Los Feliz Ledger. I'm a cartoonist for Parade Magazine, The New Yorker, LA Times, Slate, & most major media. Questions and contacts welcome.
25 Comments
John
Horses damage the environment more than bicyclist. reference:
http://www.americantrails.org/resources/ManageMaintain/WKeenImpacts.html
There should be greater restrictions on horses in Griffith Park and the Santa Monica Mountains. Horses are a major source of pollution in the Malibu Creek Watershed.
http://www.epa.gov/region09/water/tmdl/malibu/final_nutrients.pdf
I support equal access to trails by bikes and horses. Ban them both or allow total access to both. It’s the only fair thing to do.
Donna Barstow
Hi, John, very interesting link on trails, thanks. I might write further on this issue. The pdf is too complicated. For me, even if I’m not blonde. If you can pull a paragraph or drill down, that might be good, too.
Michael
The first paragraph of this post is full of misinformation. I suggest the author take the time to actually learn about the healthful and very popular sport that she dismisses out of hand.
First, mountain bikes are not “noisy” or “smelly.” Mountain bikes do not have an engine, Ms. Barstow. You may be thinking of motorbikes. Motorized vehicles are not the issue here. Mountain bicycles are human powered, practically silent, and emit no odor (which is more than can be said for horses).
In fact, mountain bikes are so quiet that as a biker, I frequently call out around blind corners to alert hikers and bikers to my presence. Perhaps this is the source of the “whooping” that Ms. Barstow is concerned about.
Second, it is very disingenuous to post a picture of a downhill mountain biker in this post. The vast majority of riders are NOT of this type. Downhill riding requires special equipment similar to motocross racing (as can be seen in the picture) and special courses and will likely not be taking place in a public park, I assure you.
In all of my years of Mountain Biking, I have never, NEVER, squished anything that could not just as easily be squished by a horse or a hiker. I have never hit a small animal or a bird. Mountain bikes only average 10 to 15 mph on offroad trails which is simply not fast enough to catch most woodland creatures by surprise.
Finally, trails are public land. If the decision is made to allow people to access the land, then it should be accessed equitably. Why should there be exclusive “equestrain” trails on public land? Mountain bikers outnumber equestrians by a large margin and we are starting to organize and assert ourselves politically because we have been marginalized and treated like criminals on public land for far too long.
Thank you.
Donna Barstow
Thanks, Michael. You’re right, I was thinking more of motorized bikes, an expression I’ve never heard, actually.
But I stand behind the photo! The trails in GP are very steep, and for you to assert no one rides downhill…I don’t think so.
I’m happy to hear you never hit an animal or bird or person. I don’t believe that you never ran over amphibians or insects, too. How could a lizard or snake get out of the way fast enough from your silent speedy trail!
Finally, I do agree in equality – there should be some trails for bikers. Personally, I’d keep away from them, and I guess animals would learn to, too.
wil
donna you really shouldn’t talk about things you appear to know nothing about. michael wasn’t asserting that we don’t go downhill, ‘downhill’ is a term for an extreme form of mountain biking that the majority of us do not do.
downhill bikes are heavy and not ridable uphill by most riders, riders who do strictly downhill style mountain bike do it at places like ski slope where there is a chair to get them to the top or other areas where a van can drive them to the top. areas like these do not exist in griffith park. the majority of us like the challenge of going uphill as well as down and the majority of us know to control our speed and have common courtesy when in the proximity of other trail users.
Mark
Of all the trails in Griffith Park, opening one or two to recreational bicyclists in only fair. Let’s see, what’s like likely to do more damage?..
An 800 lb horse with iron shoes with a 175 lb. rider or a 30 lb. bicycle with inflated rubber tires and 175 lb rider? Also, the bike doesn’t take enormous dumps on the trails
Park advocates preach green issues, but are willing to say to bicyclists, get on your car and take a drive to some other park because we’re to close minded to realize that there’s a compromise that could work for everyone.
Also, snakes and lizards (and birds, believe it or not) have been getting out of harms way since the dawn of time. I think Darwin may have commented on this phenomenon at one point.
Sheesh.
Donna Barstow
Well, that seems fair, that quiet non-motorized bikes could have some trails to themselves. The proposal was to make all the trails accessible to bikes, though.
Actually, I don’t think all the trails should be accessible to either horses or bikes.
But since everyone here seems to know so much more than I do, how fast do bikes go? Much much faster than the walking horses or me. Maybe the Darwinian animals can get out of the way, but how fast can I? Not so much. And to say you want to affect the evolution of animals by how fast you ride is irresponsible.
Rasta Rider
Damage on trails are caused by rain and horses. Horses will create much deeper ruts than bike tires and unlike dog owners who will pick up the feces, horse owners are special and leave enormous amounts of smelly and unsanitary feces all over (they are too good to pick up after their horses)
Donna Barstow
Rasta, I don’t think rain is a problem. Nor are ruts – nobody promised a trail would be flat and neat and tidy like a paved road.
I agree, someone should pick up after the horses. However, horse dung is much better for the environment than dog doo, because they’re vegetarians – that’s why dog crap smells so horrible – the meat in it is decaying.
Steve
Please don’t stand behind the photo used in your article. It is from a private freeride park in NJ (not public) specifically made for jumps, speed and drops.
Maybe this should be hikers enjoying nature:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40526757@N08/3726189689/sizes/l/in/set-72157621430656359/
and equestrians:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alydar_1978/3280921398/in/photostream/
Can we please keep things in context. I’ve been fortunate to enjoy all three activities throughout my life. Let’s stop scaring people and share a little.
Cristalle
The trails in Griffith Park were always intended to be BRIDLE PATHS, NOT MOUNTAIN BIKING TRAILS. It is not just an issue of damage – it is also an issue of use and Mr. Griffith NEVER intended the park to be used as bike paths and bicylists were not included from the start for a reason!
Horses and fast moving bikes do not mix!
The problem bikers don’t seem to want to understand is that horses are prey animals and do not like anything ZOOMING up behind them. I can only imagine the number of injuries and deaths that would occur mixing the two in large numbers.
I live near and walk in Fryman Canyon which does allow mountain bikers and even as a pedestrian bikes come whizzing up behind you. And when path space is limited you the hiker have to move out of their way because they are moving quickly- There used to be a few local people who would ride horses in Fryman but sadly they are all gone now that the masses and the bikers have invaded.
I am a third generation native Los Angelean and I am so sick of people who try to change what has made areas like this special.
These places do not stay special when you let everyone come in to and do whatever they want just because they feel a sense of entitlement.
The park was designed for horses and hikers and needs to stay that way FOREVER –
Al
Donna, It seems like you just want the trails to yourself. That’s very unfair! There SHOULD Be some sort of compromise! Hiking on these specific trails only? Biking on these specific trails only? Find a local mountain bike club and communicate with them! They will help you alot! The mountain bike clubs WILL help maintain what they ride also, I have yet to hear of any hikers assisting in trail building or maintenance to my knowledge.
Horses and ATV’s destroy trails worse than hikers and bikers do!
Cristalle…..millions of $$ spent on PUBLIC land….just for who you want it for? seriously! We all own this land…..share.
IDEA: have specific days that the park is for use! rotate a schedule for hikers, equestrian and cyclists. M,W,F,Sun – hikers and horses. Tu,Th,Sat cyclists and rotate it each week. There are easy solutions to this problem if EVERYONE will do a little compromising!
PS: I dont like riding on trails where Horse/Dog pooooo gets slung up on me from my wheels. Cyclists do not defecate on the trails like horses and dogs.
AL
Cristalle
Please see 4th paragraph below pertaining to mountains bikes:
September 9, 2005
VIA FACSIMILE TO Clare Darden, Griffith Trust Member
Open Letter to the Department of Recreation and Parks
As the great-grandson of Col . Griffith I am writing to express my disappointment with the 2004 Griffith Park Master Plan. It seems the Melendrez Group wants to turn the park into an amusement park and/or major national tourist attraction, neither of which is what it was intended to be. It was intended to be a natural habitat where the people of Los Angeles could get away from the daily stresses of city life and relax in an uncluttered atmosphere. The numerous references to Central Park in New York are completely inappropriate. Central Park is a large mostly flat area in the middle of a major metropolitan city. Griffith Park is a rural mountainous mecca where people can commune with nature, hike, ride, or picnic their problems away. It does not need any more attraction than that.
I have read the digest of public feedback made to the city by the people of Los Angeles. 95% of these comments seem to be negative to this plan. I urge you to listen to these people, as they are the ones my great-grandfather intended to benefit from the use of the park, and perhaps get their input on restructuring a new master plan. I know many of them care deeply about the park and would be happy to serve on committees and attend community meetings to rectify this situation.
I am not in favor of, nor do I think my great-grandfather would be , of aerial trams, restaurants, lodging, kiosks, parking structures or commercial signage, all of which are not conducive to the natural environment of the park.
I am in favor of, speed bumps to deter drive thru usage, one designated mountain bike trail (to be maintained by those who use it), improvements to existing trails and roads, and perhaps some soccer fields for our youths would be appropriate as it is a park.
Finally, all these grandiose plans seem to be pointing toward entry, parking, and usage fees. May I remind you that in the deed to the city it stipulates that Griffith Park is to be a free park for the enjoyment of the people of Los Angeles. Any type of imposed fees would be a violation of the deed and will be vigorously contested by the Griffith family.
Sincerely,
(signature)
Van Griffith
Here is the link to the site:
http://www.gmrnet.com/MasterPlan.html
By the way AL no one is keeping you and your bike out of the park, just off the bridle paths! There are plenty of other places for you to ride!
Land for equestrain use here in Metro LA is very limited and is continuing to diminish – Look at all the trails mountain bikers have access to:
http://www.labikepaths.com/
I would also like to know how horse “poo” is getting on your bike if you are staying off trails restricted to you? And if it bothers you soooo much why are you riding through it? There are no areas where any type of feces blankets massive ares of trail or road in the park to the point where you cannot avoid it. Get real!
get real
It’s as simple as – Griffith Park is Public Land…. What does the PUBLIC want to do on that land? Well, it seems like some of the PUBLIC wants to ride bikes there. Let the PUBLIC decide. It’s 2010 folks, this isn’t a Western Rodeo town. Horses are huge animals (750-1200 LBS) that tear up trails and crap everywhere…. That’s a fact. A bicycle is 30lbs and leaves no trace (no noise and no crapping). And PEOPLE IN LOS ANGELES WANT TO RIDE BIKES in an OFF ROAD ENVIRONMENT. THey are the public. Share the land. Get with the times.
Max
Mr. Griffith DIED before the modern bicycle even existed, let alone mountain bikes. To say he explicitly decided bikes shouldn’t be there is ridiculous and isn’t even possible. Thats like saying Marco Polo never wanted cars to travel the same paths he took to eastern asia.
And this viscous “mountain bike lobby” is nonsense. If anything, the people willing to dish out $100,000 or more per year per horse and live in their million dollar homes in the equestrian center are trying to manipulate publicly funded land so it becomes their extended back yard.
The people in that area are incredulous, they even complain about the movie studios that have been there longer than the homes they’re in…. and ensure the area remains nice mind you!
Louis
I am a huge mountainbiking fanatic and I would love for Griffith Park to be opened up to mountain bikes. However, I think it’s a terrible idea.
1. There are really no good bike trails in Griffith Park. I have ridden them all, either early in the morning or at night. Santa Monica is close, and has much much better trails.
2. There are way too many people in the park.
3. Many of the trails are steep, and the hardpacked soil offers little traction for braking or steering. Novice riders will crash. Into trees. Into horses. Into hikers.
If you want to ride a mountain bike in Los Angeles, there are many other much better places to go.
someone sensible
The author of this article should be ashamed of her ignorance and misplaced zeal. I wonder what “amphibian or insect” crawled up your ass to make you hate bikes so much?
I’ve been riding in LA all my life, have never run anything over or hit anyone (and yes…I ride fast when I feel like it and think it’s safe).
Get over yourself, we all live here together and need to be courteous to one another…
Donna Barstow
Courteous, you mean, like you? What an asshole. You have no idea what you’ve run over. Do you even know what an amphibian is? Specially when you’re such a WILD man on the path?
Markos
Riding a mountain bike through Griffith Park is pretty much a lost cause. But pointing fingers at MTB riders for environmental degradation while horses are perceived as “natural,” and therefore environmentally friendly is also a fruitless argument.
Consider the massive amount of food a horse eats. That food needs to be grown somewhere. That food takes up water, is probably grown with pesticides, and adds to the increasing amount of farmland we need.
Horses in Griffith Park are not natural. They are a recreational activity. Without people, you won’t see horses going for strolls through Griffith Park, let alone being in the Americas at all.
With that said, you won’t see mountain bikes going through Griffith Park without people either. Calling one natural and the other a nuisance denies that both are recreational activities.
The perception of mountain bikers, as propagated by your argument as inconsiderate adrenaline junkies, only exists to keep them banned, rather than actually understand them. Having understood-rules would be effective, but it seems like you would rather not understand what mountain bikers are really like. Look at the picture you posted – is there anywhere in Griffith Park a rider can jump like that? Even if there was, the vast majority of riders are not capable whatsoever of that kind of riding.
Consideration does not need iron-fisted laws. Yes, I am an adrenaline junkie, I’ll admit that. But I am not riding for the sole purpose of hunting down Donna Barstow and making her life miserable. There are ways to work out differences rather than banning one and giving a warm hug to the other. Just like how I can drive through Griffith Park at 40, rather than 25, give road riders plenty of room, and not be a hazard to anyone. If you have to drive through Griffith Park at 25 to manage to not hit a cyclist or plow into a horse or ravine, you shouldn’t be driving. But that’s an argument for another day.
Nick Ricci
Horses smell and crap everywhere. And they do a lot of damage to the trails. And to the environment. The methane they produce from their arse is not good. Bikes aren’t really bad at all.
Yet, nobody has been complaining about horses. Everyone has been cool to them. But now, the horse people are complaining about something? They are saying bikes…smell? Is this a joke?
Maybe it’s time we start banning horses from some of the trails in griffith park.
I for one, dislike horse poo and horse farts. It’s super nasty, for hikers and mountain bikers alike. Let’s make them stay on a smaller subset of trails so we don’t have to smell the creatures anymore.
Steve J
You wanna talk about environmental damage? Col. Griffith owned a series of mining companies, which is how he made his money in the first place. He also shot his wife and went to prison for it = Asshole.
I am a ‘Downhill’ mountain biker, and have as much interest in squashing cute little animals in Griffith Park as I do riding against traffic on the 101. I do not want to hike up a hill to ride down a boring fire road. However my more gentle riding brethren can and should have full access to the park. They are collectively fantastic people who love and care for those hills every bit as much as you do. They do not even need to piggyback off a poor imprisoned creature to do it, and most of the time I would bet they do not poop all over the place either [some clarification may be needed on that one!] I have seen more people filming porno films at the old zoo that I have seen people riding bikes there [I’m serious!].
However the line that Equestrians and hikers are crossing in their hatred of cyclists is becoming severe. There are areas around Glendale and Santa Clarita where it is common to place booby-traps for bikers, like large rocks placed on purpose in trails at times of day when riding is most popular, and I know someone who rode into stretched out barbed wire along a popular mtb trail. Just because Col. Griffith thought it was ok to kill someone, does not mean that other should follow suit.
Ms. A
My thoughts all pertain to Griffith Park, but are the same thoughts for any place where there are steep inclines (and therefore steep declines) and many blind curves such as is found in GP:
1. Horse manure breaks down in nature and helps with the vegetation growth as well as feeding many of the animals found in Griffith Park or any natural setting.
2. The bridle “trails” in the hills are fire roads and, by nature of fire roads, they are hard packed and the passage of the 1000+ pound horses doesn’t make a difference. The ruts that are there would be there if no one ever walked/rode a horse/rode a bicycle/drove an emergency vehicle on the road.
3. A horse moves around 3 mph to 10 miles per hour and in the hilly areas they are moving at the higher speed going up hill. There are very (underlined) few people who go faster than a walk going down the hills in Griffith Park. A bicycle would probably be coming down a steep incline at anything from 10 mph to 25 mph. Do the math. Running into a 1000-1400 pound wall isn’t something one would want to have happen. On the flat trails the bicyclist and horse (as well as any hiker, jogger, family walking with a stroller or runner) would still have to deal with the sudden appearance of a bicycle – or bicycles – going anywhere from 10 to 25 mph; the trail may be flat but the cliffs are still there.
4. Take into account that a horse when surprised by something coming at them all of a sudden out of the blue might just stand there and the bicyclist might be able to scoot by, but the horse could panic and turn towards the downhill side and then by taking up 5 to 6 feet of trail cause the bicyclist to hit the horse or fall off the road over the cliff, or the horse could turn to the inside of the trail and as the bicyclist maybe tries to go past on the outside, kick out; or if the bicyclist tries to go on the inside, the horse could rear….there’s no telling what a horse will do when something comes at them – either from the front or, worse yet, from the back. The horse – even the best trained horse – bottom line relies on flight to save their lives.
5. In the case of GP, the people who keep horses in the Rancho and Atwater Village area have only one place to ride: Griffith Park. I don’t have numbers but based on over 30 years of talking with people who board in these areas, hardly anyone has a horse trailer so they have no way to take their horse to another area to ride – GP is it. Bicyclists can put their bikes in their cars’ back seats, on their cars’ roofs, in the trunk or on a carrier attached to their car and they can drive less than 30 minutes and be able to access hundreds of miles of trails that are open to bicyclists. Also, please note that not everyone who has a horse is rich, lives in a fancy house or even owns the horse they ride.
Donna Barstow
Excellent analysis, Ms. A. I appreciate that. I’m not a horse owner or rider, and I have heard from more cyclists than riders here.
Dan
Hey there.
I don’t have a problem with your slant against mountain bikes. I used to ride horses everywhere. Frickin love em. Beautiful, elegant, regal creatures that deserve respect.
They also left a really smelly mess all over Mullholland up in the park today. First time on that trail for me.
Rode my ten speed on the off limits trail. Saw one pack of horses and dismounted. They were headed in the direction of the multiple piles of smelly road apples. Man, what are you guys feeding your horses up in GP?
Anyway, my hope, my HOPE my HOPE is that one day they will allow a certain time for mountain bikers to access trails in GP. Why not one day a week? Why not one day a week for several hours?
How hard is that?
Donna Barstow
I wouldn’t have a problem with that. But can you imagine them putting up signs for that, like street parking?
And since I wrote this post, half of this area has redone and ruined our streets by making huge bike lanes, thereby squishing cars into only one lane, wasting gas, and making it harder to cross the streets (on foot – another way to travel) with the long lines of cars. All for the one or 2 bikes an hour that may go by.
Blame LaBonge.