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	<title>Comments on: Mountain bikers at your picnic? You decide.</title>
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	<link>http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2009/11/05/mountain-bikers-at-your-picnic-you-decide/</link>
	<description>Griffith Park &#38; Silver Lake Blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:07:46 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Cristalle</title>
		<link>http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2009/11/05/mountain-bikers-at-your-picnic-you-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-15117</link>
		<dc:creator>Cristalle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/?p=586#comment-15117</guid>
		<description>Please see 4th paragraph below pertaining to mountains bikes:

September 9, 2005

VIA FACSIMILE TO Clare Darden, Griffith Trust Member

Open Letter to the Department of Recreation and Parks

As the great-grandson of Col . Griffith I am writing to express my disappointment with the 2004 Griffith Park Master Plan. It seems the Melendrez Group wants to turn the park into an amusement park and/or major national tourist attraction, neither of which is what it was intended to be. It was intended to be a natural habitat where the people of Los Angeles could get away from the daily stresses of city life and relax in an uncluttered atmosphere. The numerous references to Central Park in New York are completely inappropriate. Central Park is a large mostly flat area in the middle of a major metropolitan city. Griffith Park is a rural mountainous mecca where people can commune with nature, hike, ride, or picnic their problems away. It does not need any more attraction than that.

I have read the digest of public feedback made to the city by the people of Los Angeles. 95% of these comments seem to be negative to this plan. I urge you to listen to these people, as they are the ones my great-grandfather intended to benefit from the use of the park, and perhaps get their input on restructuring a new master plan. I know many of them care deeply about the park and would be happy to serve on committees and attend community meetings to rectify this situation.

I am not in favor of, nor do I think my great-grandfather would be , of aerial trams, restaurants, lodging, kiosks, parking structures or commercial signage, all of which are not conducive to the natural environment of the park.

I am in favor of, speed bumps to deter drive thru usage, one designated mountain bike trail (to be maintained by those who use it), improvements to existing trails and roads, and perhaps some soccer fields for our youths would be appropriate as it is a park.

Finally, all these grandiose plans seem to be pointing toward entry, parking, and usage fees. May I remind you that in the deed to the city it stipulates that Griffith Park is to be a free park for the enjoyment of the people of Los Angeles. Any type of imposed fees would be a violation of the deed and will be vigorously contested by the Griffith family.

Sincerely,

(signature)

Van Griffith

Here is the link to the site:
http://www.gmrnet.com/MasterPlan.html

By the way AL no one is keeping you and your bike out of the park, just off the bridle paths! There are plenty of other places for you to ride!
Land for equestrain use here in Metro LA is very limited and is continuing to diminish - Look at all the trails mountain bikers have access to:
http://www.labikepaths.com/

I would also like to know how horse &quot;poo&quot; is getting on your bike if you are staying off trails restricted to you? And if it bothers you soooo much why are you riding through it? There are no areas where any type of feces blankets massive ares of trail or road in the park to the point where you cannot avoid it. Get real!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please see 4th paragraph below pertaining to mountains bikes:</p>
<p>September 9, 2005</p>
<p>VIA FACSIMILE TO Clare Darden, Griffith Trust Member</p>
<p>Open Letter to the Department of Recreation and Parks</p>
<p>As the great-grandson of Col . Griffith I am writing to express my disappointment with the 2004 Griffith Park Master Plan. It seems the Melendrez Group wants to turn the park into an amusement park and/or major national tourist attraction, neither of which is what it was intended to be. It was intended to be a natural habitat where the people of Los Angeles could get away from the daily stresses of city life and relax in an uncluttered atmosphere. The numerous references to Central Park in New York are completely inappropriate. Central Park is a large mostly flat area in the middle of a major metropolitan city. Griffith Park is a rural mountainous mecca where people can commune with nature, hike, ride, or picnic their problems away. It does not need any more attraction than that.</p>
<p>I have read the digest of public feedback made to the city by the people of Los Angeles. 95% of these comments seem to be negative to this plan. I urge you to listen to these people, as they are the ones my great-grandfather intended to benefit from the use of the park, and perhaps get their input on restructuring a new master plan. I know many of them care deeply about the park and would be happy to serve on committees and attend community meetings to rectify this situation.</p>
<p>I am not in favor of, nor do I think my great-grandfather would be , of aerial trams, restaurants, lodging, kiosks, parking structures or commercial signage, all of which are not conducive to the natural environment of the park.</p>
<p>I am in favor of, speed bumps to deter drive thru usage, one designated mountain bike trail (to be maintained by those who use it), improvements to existing trails and roads, and perhaps some soccer fields for our youths would be appropriate as it is a park.</p>
<p>Finally, all these grandiose plans seem to be pointing toward entry, parking, and usage fees. May I remind you that in the deed to the city it stipulates that Griffith Park is to be a free park for the enjoyment of the people of Los Angeles. Any type of imposed fees would be a violation of the deed and will be vigorously contested by the Griffith family.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>(signature)</p>
<p>Van Griffith</p>
<p>Here is the link to the site:<br />
<a href="http://www.gmrnet.com/MasterPlan.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gmrnet.com/MasterPlan.html</a></p>
<p>By the way AL no one is keeping you and your bike out of the park, just off the bridle paths! There are plenty of other places for you to ride!<br />
Land for equestrain use here in Metro LA is very limited and is continuing to diminish &#8211; Look at all the trails mountain bikers have access to:<br />
<a href="http://www.labikepaths.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.labikepaths.com/</a></p>
<p>I would also like to know how horse &#8220;poo&#8221; is getting on your bike if you are staying off trails restricted to you? And if it bothers you soooo much why are you riding through it? There are no areas where any type of feces blankets massive ares of trail or road in the park to the point where you cannot avoid it. Get real!</p>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2009/11/05/mountain-bikers-at-your-picnic-you-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-15007</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/?p=586#comment-15007</guid>
		<description>Donna, It seems like you just want the trails to yourself. That&#039;s very unfair! There SHOULD Be some sort of compromise! Hiking on these specific trails only? Biking on these specific trails only? Find a local mountain bike club and communicate with them! They will help you alot! The mountain bike clubs WILL help maintain what they ride also, I have yet to hear of any hikers assisting in trail building or maintenance to my knowledge.

Horses and ATV&#039;s destroy trails worse than hikers and bikers do!

Cristalle.....millions of $$ spent on PUBLIC land....just for who you want it for? seriously! We all own this land.....share.

IDEA: have specific days that the park is for use! rotate a schedule for hikers, equestrian and cyclists.  M,W,F,Sun - hikers and horses. Tu,Th,Sat cyclists and rotate it each week. There are easy solutions to this problem if EVERYONE will do a little compromising!

PS: I dont like riding on trails where Horse/Dog pooooo gets slung up on me from my wheels. Cyclists do not defecate on the trails like horses and dogs.

AL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donna, It seems like you just want the trails to yourself. That&#8217;s very unfair! There SHOULD Be some sort of compromise! Hiking on these specific trails only? Biking on these specific trails only? Find a local mountain bike club and communicate with them! They will help you alot! The mountain bike clubs WILL help maintain what they ride also, I have yet to hear of any hikers assisting in trail building or maintenance to my knowledge.</p>
<p>Horses and ATV&#8217;s destroy trails worse than hikers and bikers do!</p>
<p>Cristalle&#8230;..millions of $$ spent on PUBLIC land&#8230;.just for who you want it for? seriously! We all own this land&#8230;..share.</p>
<p>IDEA: have specific days that the park is for use! rotate a schedule for hikers, equestrian and cyclists.  M,W,F,Sun &#8211; hikers and horses. Tu,Th,Sat cyclists and rotate it each week. There are easy solutions to this problem if EVERYONE will do a little compromising!</p>
<p>PS: I dont like riding on trails where Horse/Dog pooooo gets slung up on me from my wheels. Cyclists do not defecate on the trails like horses and dogs.</p>
<p>AL</p>
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		<title>By: Cristalle</title>
		<link>http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2009/11/05/mountain-bikers-at-your-picnic-you-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-14885</link>
		<dc:creator>Cristalle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/?p=586#comment-14885</guid>
		<description>The trails in Griffith Park were always intended to be BRIDLE PATHS, NOT MOUNTAIN BIKING TRAILS. It is not just an issue of damage - it is also an issue of use and Mr. Griffith NEVER intended the park to be used as bike paths and bicylists were not included from the start for a reason!
Horses and fast moving bikes do not mix!
The problem bikers don&#039;t seem to want to understand is that horses are prey animals and do not like anything ZOOMING up behind them. I can only imagine the number of injuries and deaths that would occur mixing the two in large numbers. 

I live near and walk in Fryman Canyon which does allow mountain bikers and even as a pedestrian bikes come whizzing up behind you. And when path space is limited you the hiker have to move out of their way because they are moving quickly- There used to be a few local people who would ride horses in Fryman but sadly they are all gone now that the masses and the bikers have invaded.

I am a third generation native Los Angelean and I am so sick of people who try to change what has made areas like this special.
These places do not stay special when you let everyone come in to and do whatever they want just because they feel a sense of entitlement.

The park was designed for horses and hikers and needs to stay that way FOREVER -</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trails in Griffith Park were always intended to be BRIDLE PATHS, NOT MOUNTAIN BIKING TRAILS. It is not just an issue of damage &#8211; it is also an issue of use and Mr. Griffith NEVER intended the park to be used as bike paths and bicylists were not included from the start for a reason!<br />
Horses and fast moving bikes do not mix!<br />
The problem bikers don&#8217;t seem to want to understand is that horses are prey animals and do not like anything ZOOMING up behind them. I can only imagine the number of injuries and deaths that would occur mixing the two in large numbers. </p>
<p>I live near and walk in Fryman Canyon which does allow mountain bikers and even as a pedestrian bikes come whizzing up behind you. And when path space is limited you the hiker have to move out of their way because they are moving quickly- There used to be a few local people who would ride horses in Fryman but sadly they are all gone now that the masses and the bikers have invaded.</p>
<p>I am a third generation native Los Angelean and I am so sick of people who try to change what has made areas like this special.<br />
These places do not stay special when you let everyone come in to and do whatever they want just because they feel a sense of entitlement.</p>
<p>The park was designed for horses and hikers and needs to stay that way FOREVER -</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2009/11/05/mountain-bikers-at-your-picnic-you-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-14861</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/?p=586#comment-14861</guid>
		<description>Please don&#039;t stand behind the photo used in your article. It is from a private freeride park in NJ (not public) specifically made for jumps, speed and drops. 

Maybe this should be hikers enjoying nature:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40526757@N08/3726189689/sizes/l/in/set-72157621430656359/

and equestrians:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alydar_1978/3280921398/in/photostream/

Can we please keep things in context. I&#039;ve been fortunate to enjoy all three activities throughout my life. Let&#039;s stop scaring people and share a little.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please don&#8217;t stand behind the photo used in your article. It is from a private freeride park in NJ (not public) specifically made for jumps, speed and drops. </p>
<p>Maybe this should be hikers enjoying nature:<br />
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/40526757@N08/3726189689/sizes/l/in/set-72157621430656359/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/40526757@N08/3726189689/sizes/l/in/set-72157621430656359/</a></p>
<p>and equestrians:<br />
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/alydar_1978/3280921398/in/photostream/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/alydar_1978/3280921398/in/photostream/</a></p>
<p>Can we please keep things in context. I&#8217;ve been fortunate to enjoy all three activities throughout my life. Let&#8217;s stop scaring people and share a little.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna Barstow</title>
		<link>http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2009/11/05/mountain-bikers-at-your-picnic-you-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-14424</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna Barstow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 03:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/?p=586#comment-14424</guid>
		<description>Rasta, I don&#039;t think rain is a problem. Nor are ruts - nobody promised a trail would be flat and neat and tidy like a paved road.

I agree, someone should pick up after the horses. However, horse dung is much better for the environment than dog doo, because they&#039;re vegetarians - that&#039;s why dog crap smells so horrible - the meat in it is decaying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rasta, I don&#8217;t think rain is a problem. Nor are ruts &#8211; nobody promised a trail would be flat and neat and tidy like a paved road.</p>
<p>I agree, someone should pick up after the horses. However, horse dung is much better for the environment than dog doo, because they&#8217;re vegetarians &#8211; that&#8217;s why dog crap smells so horrible &#8211; the meat in it is decaying.</p>
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		<title>By: Rasta Rider</title>
		<link>http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2009/11/05/mountain-bikers-at-your-picnic-you-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-14423</link>
		<dc:creator>Rasta Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 01:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/?p=586#comment-14423</guid>
		<description>Damage on trails are caused by rain and horses. Horses will create much deeper ruts than bike tires and unlike dog owners who will pick up the feces, horse owners are special and leave enormous amounts of smelly and unsanitary feces all over (they are too good to pick up after their horses)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damage on trails are caused by rain and horses. Horses will create much deeper ruts than bike tires and unlike dog owners who will pick up the feces, horse owners are special and leave enormous amounts of smelly and unsanitary feces all over (they are too good to pick up after their horses)</p>
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		<title>By: Donna Barstow</title>
		<link>http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2009/11/05/mountain-bikers-at-your-picnic-you-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-14388</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna Barstow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/?p=586#comment-14388</guid>
		<description>Well, that seems fair, that quiet non-motorized bikes could have some trails to themselves. The proposal was to make all the trails accessible to bikes, though.

Actually, I don&#039;t think all the trails should be accessible to either horses or bikes.

But since everyone here seems to know so much more than I do, how fast do bikes go? Much much faster than the walking horses or me. Maybe the Darwinian animals can get out of the way, but how fast can I? Not so much. And to say you want to affect the evolution of animals by how fast you ride is irresponsible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that seems fair, that quiet non-motorized bikes could have some trails to themselves. The proposal was to make all the trails accessible to bikes, though.</p>
<p>Actually, I don&#8217;t think all the trails should be accessible to either horses or bikes.</p>
<p>But since everyone here seems to know so much more than I do, how fast do bikes go? Much much faster than the walking horses or me. Maybe the Darwinian animals can get out of the way, but how fast can I? Not so much. And to say you want to affect the evolution of animals by how fast you ride is irresponsible.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2009/11/05/mountain-bikers-at-your-picnic-you-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-14376</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 06:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/?p=586#comment-14376</guid>
		<description>Of all the trails in Griffith Park, opening one or two to recreational bicyclists in only fair.  Let&#039;s see, what&#039;s like likely to do more damage?..

An 800 lb horse with iron shoes with a 175 lb. rider or a 30 lb. bicycle with inflated rubber tires and 175 lb rider?  Also, the bike doesn&#039;t take enormous dumps on the trails

Park advocates preach green issues, but are willing to say to bicyclists, get on your car and take a drive to some other park because we&#039;re to close minded to realize that there&#039;s a compromise that could work for everyone.

Also, snakes and lizards (and birds, believe it or not) have been getting out of harms way since the dawn of time.  I think Darwin may have commented on this phenomenon at one point.

Sheesh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of all the trails in Griffith Park, opening one or two to recreational bicyclists in only fair.  Let&#8217;s see, what&#8217;s like likely to do more damage?..</p>
<p>An 800 lb horse with iron shoes with a 175 lb. rider or a 30 lb. bicycle with inflated rubber tires and 175 lb rider?  Also, the bike doesn&#8217;t take enormous dumps on the trails</p>
<p>Park advocates preach green issues, but are willing to say to bicyclists, get on your car and take a drive to some other park because we&#8217;re to close minded to realize that there&#8217;s a compromise that could work for everyone.</p>
<p>Also, snakes and lizards (and birds, believe it or not) have been getting out of harms way since the dawn of time.  I think Darwin may have commented on this phenomenon at one point.</p>
<p>Sheesh.</p>
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