Comments on: DWP dumps 6 million plastic balls in Silver Lake drinking water. http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/ Fire and water: Griffith Park and Silver Lake, redux. Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:04:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: ocean bacteria http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-3368 ocean bacteria Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:02:49 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-3368 <strong>ocean bacteria...</strong> Some weblog software programs, such as Wordpress, Movable Type and Community Server, support automatic pingbacks where all the links... ocean bacteria…

Some weblog software programs, such as Wordpress, Movable Type and Community Server, support automatic pingbacks where all the links…

]]> By: Hathor http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2914 Hathor Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:44:09 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2914 Hi Donna, really great post, a bunch of us mothers were wondering about the black balls, and then the discussion turned to plastic bottles and drinking water and a why you should stop buying bottles and then when I was researching the birdballs I found your post which ties it all nicely together...thanks! xox, Heather Cushman-Dowdee Hi Donna, really great post, a bunch of us mothers were wondering about the black balls, and then the discussion turned to plastic bottles and drinking water and a why you should stop buying bottles and then when I was researching the birdballs I found your post which ties it all nicely together…thanks!
xox,
Heather Cushman-Dowdee

]]> By: hard plastic drinking water containers http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2825 hard plastic drinking water containers Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:29:09 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2825 [...] plastic! ... 8 Responses to &8220DWP dumps 6 million plastic balls in Silver Lake drinking water.http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/We&39ll have to coin a word for our newly found fear of plastics - Sault StarPerhaps the last [...] […] plastic! … 8 Responses to &8220DWP dumps 6 million plastic balls in Silver Lake drinking water.http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/We&39ll have to coin a word for our newly found fear of plastics - Sault StarPerhaps the last […]

]]> By: CONCRETE JUNGLE » Blog Archive » Defending the Water Supply http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2713 CONCRETE JUNGLE » Blog Archive » Defending the Water Supply Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:18:40 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2713 [...] Donna Barstow has an interesting blog post about her research into the safety of the “bird balls” and Curbed LA has an informative writeup with more pictures and information. [...] […] Donna Barstow has an interesting blog post about her research into the safety of the “bird balls” and Curbed LA has an informative writeup with more pictures and information. […]

]]> By: Eric http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2690 Eric Fri, 13 Jun 2008 03:02:20 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2690 99% coverage will result in (roughly) a 99% decrease in the rate of Bromate formation, which should result in a 99% reduction in Bromate levels. Regarding leakage leaching, the main leachate from HDPE pipe is from phenol based antioxidants. Some phenol compounds could potentially be nasty, but if they didn't care about degradation, and didn't use the antioxidants in the bird balls, then there wouldn't be much leachage from the balls. The HDPE itself is fairly inert, and will have (comparatively) harmless breakdown products. 99% coverage will result in (roughly) a 99% decrease in the rate of Bromate formation, which should result in a 99% reduction in Bromate levels.

Regarding leakage leaching, the main leachate from HDPE pipe is from phenol based antioxidants. Some phenol compounds could potentially be nasty, but if they didn’t care about degradation, and didn’t use the antioxidants in the bird balls, then there wouldn’t be much leachage from the balls. The HDPE itself is fairly inert, and will have (comparatively) harmless breakdown products.

]]> By: Patrick http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2667 Patrick Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:12:26 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2667 I have never seen plastic that can stand up to extended exposure to the sun, even fence posts exposed to the sun eventually become brittle and break, pool deck furniture, etc. I cannot imagine that these balls will be different. My big question is what will the effect be on bacteria and other microorganisms be if the temperature of the lake is raised by 10 to 15 degrees year-round? I would imagine that these balls will have the same effect as a black pool cover, reducing evaporation (cooling), collecting and trapping the heat from the sun. Being in the tire industry myself, I know I would not want carbon black used in any product that was going to come close to my mouth or that I might breath in. This whole idea seems ludicrous. Even if you cover the whole lake with balls, they are round and there will always be gaps between them so they will not completely prevent sunlight from reaching the water. Will covering 99% be able to give you the desired result? I have never seen plastic that can stand up to extended exposure to the sun, even fence posts exposed to the sun eventually become brittle and break, pool deck furniture, etc. I cannot imagine that these balls will be different.

My big question is what will the effect be on bacteria and other microorganisms be if the temperature of the lake is raised by 10 to 15 degrees year-round? I would imagine that these balls will have the same effect as a black pool cover, reducing evaporation (cooling), collecting and trapping the heat from the sun.

Being in the tire industry myself, I know I would not want carbon black used in any product that was going to come close to my mouth or that I might breath in.

This whole idea seems ludicrous. Even if you cover the whole lake with balls, they are round and there will always be gaps between them so they will not completely prevent sunlight from reaching the water. Will covering 99% be able to give you the desired result?

]]> By: dubby http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2665 dubby Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:34:45 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2665 And how will we dispose of all this plastic? Aren't our landfills impacted enough? Umm and what about Heat Island Effect - did they just essentially create a huge asphalt parking lot? And how will we dispose of all this plastic? Aren’t our landfills impacted enough?

Umm and what about Heat Island Effect - did they just essentially create a huge asphalt parking lot?

]]> By: Free Weights La http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2297 Free Weights La Fri, 09 May 2008 00:35:53 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-2297 <strong>Free Weights La...</strong> Hi - just wanted to say good design and blog -... Free Weights La…

Hi - just wanted to say good design and blog -…

]]> By: Answers are everywhere… Are you looking right? | no.stupid.answers http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1989 Answers are everywhere… Are you looking right? | no.stupid.answers Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:21:54 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1989 [...] Griffith Park, Interrupted is hesitant to reuse plastic bottles. [...] […] Griffith Park, Interrupted is hesitant to reuse plastic bottles. […]

]]> By: Donna http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1858 Donna Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:55:19 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1858 Thanks, Mr. HDPE. As you say, no promises here. As I understand it, the quality and safety of plastic can change radically as it's processed to make an item. That's why the grade can change in different products. Thanks, Mr. HDPE.

As you say, no promises here. As I understand it, the quality and safety of plastic can change radically as it’s processed to make an item. That’s why the grade can change in different products.

]]> By: Mr HDPE Pellet http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1827 Mr HDPE Pellet Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:56:31 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1827 whoops "...presence of sunlight is a **loss** of the physical strength..." whoops “…presence of sunlight is a **loss** of the physical strength…”

]]> By: Mr HDPE Pellet http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1826 Mr HDPE Pellet Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:55:09 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1826 There are clearly other issues here beyond HDPE that I am unqualified to comment. But I do know something about HDPE. The degradation of HDPE that occurs in the presence of sunlight is a determination of the physical strength of the polymer and color of the polymer; additives are used to maintain these properties. However, even if completely unstabilized the new balls and aged balls would not leach anything into the water. It is a simple issue of 1) hydrophobic polyethylene and 2) the molecular weights of the polymer involved (several hundred thousand). That leaves the additives. Since, these balls are under no continuous strain and only need the strength not to break when handled in a future removal (remember HDPE floats, so broken balls will not sink and add to any problem). Also, nobody is going to care if the color of these balls does not evolve over time, like they might a child's play house or other consumer item. Thus, the HDPE in these balls are likely minimally stabilized (no promises here). Meaning that the polymer is only stabilized enough to be processed into the ball (@ 450F). The Nelson Environmental site indicates that the balls are black, indicating the use of carbon black as a stabilizer (like in tires). The carbon black is a very very effective thermal and light stabilizer (free radical trap) that is not going to leach from the polymer as it is also hydrophobic. There are clearly other issues here beyond HDPE that I am unqualified to comment. But I do know something about HDPE. The degradation of HDPE that occurs in the presence of sunlight is a determination of the physical strength of the polymer and color of the polymer; additives are used to maintain these properties. However, even if completely unstabilized the new balls and aged balls would not leach anything into the water. It is a simple issue of 1) hydrophobic polyethylene and 2) the molecular weights of the polymer involved (several hundred thousand). That leaves the additives. Since, these balls are under no continuous strain and only need the strength not to break when handled in a future removal (remember HDPE floats, so broken balls will not sink and add to any problem). Also, nobody is going to care if the color of these balls does not evolve over time, like they might a child’s play house or other consumer item. Thus, the HDPE in these balls are likely minimally stabilized (no promises here). Meaning that the polymer is only stabilized enough to be processed into the ball (@ 450F). The Nelson Environmental site indicates that the balls are black, indicating the use of carbon black as a stabilizer (like in tires). The carbon black is a very very effective thermal and light stabilizer (free radical trap) that is not going to leach from the polymer as it is also hydrophobic.

]]> By: DWP dumps HDPE plastic in Silver Lake drinking water. | Plastic Surgery Info http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1807 DWP dumps HDPE plastic in Silver Lake drinking water. | Plastic Surgery Info Tue, 15 Apr 2008 02:07:56 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1807 [...] Anna Sattler wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptIvanhoe Reservoir is beginning to resemble a Chuck E Cheese ball pit as Los Angeles Dept. of Water and Power officials have begun placing plastic “bird balls” in 100000 ball increments on the reservoir’s surface to protect it from a … [...] […] Anna Sattler wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptIvanhoe Reservoir is beginning to resemble a Chuck E Cheese ball pit as Los Angeles Dept. of Water and Power officials have begun placing plastic “bird balls” in 100000 ball increments on the reservoir’s surface to protect it from a … […]

]]> By: Aaron Wakling http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1806 Aaron Wakling Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:46:33 +0000 http://donnabarstow.com/park_blog/2008/04/14/dwp-dumps-hdpe-plastic-in-silver-lake-drinking-water/#comment-1806 Good Blog. I will continue reading it in the future. Nice layout too. Aaron Wakling Good Blog. I will continue reading it in the future. Nice layout too.

Aaron Wakling

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